Just Thinking

Some thoughts if I may...some days it seems like church is just man organized at a mediocre attempt to achieve "encouragement" while subconciously seeking comfort in numbers, acceptance here on earth, "paying back" some of what God has given us. Those will continuously see church pessimistically because they will never find those things in a church, subconsciously or consciously. Those are to be provided by God alone, maybe through a church or maybe not. BUT...if we can see what church as we know it today evolved from, then church should be a coming together of people of like hearts with a desire to see God lifted up and exalted, corporately doing just that, then man's heart finds encouragement. Jesus, when lifted up, will draw all men unto him. So who is it for? God. Who benefits: saved and unsaved alike.
--Craig Sims

Craig, thank you so much for your input. Man, my heart is always warmed by what you have to say! First of all let me say with I agree with what you have to say about those who are seeking for comfort in numbers, acceptance here on earth, and "paying back" what God has given will always see church pessimistically.

We shouldn't seek comfort in numbers...we should seek comfort from the Comforter whether numbers are large or small. We should not expect complete acceptance here on earth even from our brothers and sisters in the faith because we are sinful and sin scars relationships. How could we ever "pay back" what God has done for us? That is completely impossible and borders on arrogant. We are forever indebted to Him!

It seems so often today, there is so much disdain for "the church." When in actuality the church is only a reflection of the hearts of the people. Thus, when we complain against the church, are we not also making some accusation against ourselves. There needs to be much more respect for the church.

I also think it would help to see the where the church evolved from. This will help us get a Biblical perspective of the church as opposed to a buffet (all I can eat) perspective. Here are some things I see biblical in regards to the church, taking from the points you made.

a coming together
Therefore, brothers, since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way opened for us through the curtain, that is, his body, and since we have a great priest over the house of God, let us draw near to God with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water. Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful. And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds. Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but let us encourage one another--and all the more as you see the Day approaching. (Heb. 10:19-25)

It is not completely clear why there were some who were giving up meeting together, but we do know that the writer of Hebrews strongly warns them not to take up the practice of failing to come together. When we come together, we have the opportunity to enter into the most holy place together. We have the opportunity to share in the hope we profess together. We have the opporunity to spur one another on toward love and good deeds. We have the opportunity to encourage one another...especially because the Day is approaching. It is true that each individual is the church, but each of us is a part of the body as well. When we come together the body is complete. I could not imagine what it would be like if I saw an arm just hanging around at the grocery store one day. That is what it looks like when we do not gather together. We are only part of what God has called us to be.

of people of like hearts
All the believers were together and had everything in common. (Acts 2:44)

This is what the church was founded upon. Everyone had like hearts. It really wasn't based upon similar political views or similar interpretations of the gifts of the Spirit...it was based upon the fact that they gathered together because they shared in the mission of God...to extend His kingdom to those who were imprisoned by and dying in their sin. Thus, having everything in common has mostly to do with exalting Jesus.

exalting Jesus
But I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself. (John 12:32)

It is interesting to me Craig, that you referred to this verse. I have thought much about this verse and how it relates to what the church is to do. What is it that Jesus is referring to here? Verse 33 tells us that this is in reference to the crucifixion. What a weird way to describe exaltation. In Jesus's view him being exalted was him being crucified. That is not at all what we think of when we think of exaltation. How does this apply to the church? Can it even apply to the church? I think it can. Here's why. First of all, the crucifixion is offensive; therefore, many churches today do not want to have a cross in their sanctuary for fear of offending. Furthermore, it is rarely mentioned because there is a fear that it will scare someone away. We cannot hide from the reality of the cross! It is ugly. It is offensive. But remembering the cross and what Jesus did is part of exalting Him. When we lift Him up on the cross. It speaks of His service, His surrender, His submission, and eventually to His resurrection. It speaks of HIM!!!! As Brennan Manning refers to it...it is His signature. When the church exalts Jesus, it does draw men to Himself...not the opposite.

Craig, thank you again for your input. My comments are only my reflections at this time. I do not want to give the impression that I know it all. In fact that is why I am even working through this series of blogs. I know very little about the church...I want to know more!

Here are some other passages that I am looking at in regards to the church:
-Acts 2:42-46
-Acts 20:7
-1 Cor. 11:18
-1 Cor. 14:26-40
-Eph. 4:11-12

Church is for the unsaved but primarily i would say it is for the saved. It is were we receive training and encouragement. I am not much of a cook, so i will bring potato salad.
--Ruth Ferguson

Ruth, first of all thank you for your input. Basically what I see you saying is that church is for both the saved and unsaved. My question to you (or anyone who would like to offer) here is: Do we specifically target one group or the other? In other words, do we shape our "church" service in such a way that it is attractive to unbelievers? Or, do we primarily try to equip and encourage the saved? What does this look like...this equipping and encouraging?

Here is another idea to ponder: How is the church described in the Bible? Basically it seems as if there are two words that are used to refer to the church: 1.) kyriakos (1 Cor. 11:20; Rev. 1:10) and 2.) Ekklesia (numerous places...Matt. 16:18, 18:17, 2 Tim 2:19, Rom. 16:1, 1 Cor. 1:2; 1 Cor. 3:9-10, 2 Cor. 1:1, 1 Thess 1:1...to name a few).

Also, Ruth, thanks for the potato salad...(mustard or mayo based?)

I would like to do sort of a "pot luck" blog for the next week or so, depending upon how the dialogue goes.

Here is what I'd like to discuss with all of you who are willing to offer:

Church, what is it, who is it for?

(please offer b/c it is hard to have a pot luck when you are the only one who brings the food!!!)